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Moderator: Debs from SiteSell

#1370040 by tim from Kings Beach
Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:44 am

I am soooo confused now. After reading this article I checked a page I had edited to see what analyse it told me about the page.

As is the page file name is : local-online-dating
So my keyword box was - local online dating

I hope that this was the correct (old) way of doing it.

Analyse it reported it as all good before the changes.

So because I have edited and rebuilt the page I decided to make the keyword changes.
File name stays the same: local online dating
New keyword in keyword box, I chose: dating

Once I made the changes I have all kinds of analyse it messages:

Your specific keyword does not begin in the file name
you entered the specific keyword and at least one other word
Remove your keyword at least 22 times

I have no idea what the best thing to do is now!

Do we now ignore some of analyse it? Why is it telling me I have at least one other keyword when I only have one word in the keywod box?

As someone that has tried and struggled at time to follow the action guide to the book as I want to make sure everything is as correct as possible I now find myself in a very confused place.

Has this change been made too early without updating all the required other areas of SBI and its software.?
I have just re watched the action guide hoping it would enlighten me, but as far as I could see it is still telling me to choose my keyword from MKL - if it is more than one word thats fine - use the MKL phrase for your file name - place the file name as your keyword. So there seems to be little clarity to help anyone confused, and are new SBI'ers still watching that video?

#1370041 by Juri from
Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:47 am

I want to repeat what Coleen and Carolyn and others try to convey...

The vote isn't "symmetrical": Those who vote for #1 get it even if #2 "wins", so they actually don't/can't lose anything.

    If you think you can forget about it before you churn out your next page, put a sticker on your monitor.

However, if #1 "wins", those who vote for #2 have to live with the result.

Since people who vote for the new release are free to follow its advice in any case,

    ...because 1 remains less than 5...
I just have to ask them

What do you hope to gain extra by imposing the rule on those who are against it?

Though I use several keywords on some of my pages,

    ...doing it to save my time. If I notice that MKL numbers for one keyword get dramatically better, I just swap it to the head of the line in the KW meta tag, and run AI! to see if the page is up to it
I would have been for #2 just because of fairness.

People got upset because they feel the issue is [about] their business. And if you think about it, it is.

Kind regards,
#1370042 by Margeurite from Camden
Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:04 am
Hi Tim,

Don't panic, everything is okay.

The keyword for your local-online-dating page should remain local online dating. That is considered one keyword. Multiple keywords would include commas. For example: local online dating, online local dating, dating locally online etc.

So, just ensure that your local-online-dating page has the keyword local online dating and Analyse It! will be happy again.

I hope that helps.
#1370044 by tim from Kings Beach
Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:37 pm
Thats the problem - analyse is not happy - even if i put the keyword as - local online dating - it is giving me this message:

You entered the Specific Keyword and at least one other keyword in the KEYWORDS box (BB2) or the Keywords meta tag (UYOH)
More than one keyword is in the KEYWORD box (BB2) or tag (UYOH) for this page. Reduce it to one by deleting the comma after the Specific Keyword and everything after it. For example, this is wrong...

I have no other keywords in the box?.

#1370046 by Support Admin from
Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:06 pm
Hi Tim,

You should not receive that warning for only one keyword that contains more than one word. Please open a support ticket, so programmers can investigate this...

I tested this on one of our Support test sites and could not reproduce. However, I see for this page on your site, the warning does present and should not. Thanks!

All the best,
Head of SiteSell Support
#1370061 by Adam from Parnell
Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:13 pm
Ok, I have read every post in this topic on the forum. I feel like I'm beginning to get a grip on what's being said by Ken, AJ, Debs, and other administrators about the keyword change. I agree that just using one keyword in the meta tag will save me time. I know that SBI! is doing this for our benefit. I am an "Upload Your Own HTML" user and adjusting/adding keywords is relatively easy when creating new pages.

I currently have 953 pages that I have created and uploaded. EVERY SINGLE PAGE HAS 5 KEYWORDS IN THE META TAG. I always followed the Action Guide to create the best 5 related keywords that I could and placed them in order of significance in the keyword tag since I first began my website adventure in 2007. Now I'm being told that this could damage my rankings to have so many "additional" keywords and that I need to remove them.

It would take me a minimum of 5 minutes per page to edit the page, reupload it, and publish it. That's very close to a minimum 80 hours of work, just to revise each of my existing pages!
This not only makes me dread doing this, but also frustrates me greatly after all the time I have already put into SEO (according to SBI!) for the pages I've already built.

So, I still need a simplified answer to a couple of questions.

First, will it truly affect my rankings (as if they could get worse) if I leave existing pages as they are?

Second, Is there ANY way to simplify the "fixing" of existing pages to comply with the new single keyword deal?
#1370069 by ken-admin
Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:02 pm
Will, regarding your comment and link to AdSense text info here...

That is not referring to the META KEYWORD tag. It's irrelevant to this discussion.


Good find here, AJ...

The post is, as you note, 5 years old, but a Bing project manager is good enough for me as a source.

Just FYI...

There is so much bad info online that my thinking is strictly binary when it comes to SEO claims. It's "hearsay" if it doesn't come from THE source (Google, Bing, etc.). A project manager quoted by a reliable publication certainly fits.

The other source that I'll buy is this..

A reputable source in the field does a study and comes to certain conclusions. If the study is well-explained and well-structured (I can't find reasons why it would introduce error/bias), I'll likely accept its conclusions (but I'll still search for reactions to that study if this is something worth passing on to you). The ideal situation is that the methodology is explained in such detail that the entire study can be reproduced, just like happens in the sciences.

The ultimate example of the value of this was when 2 highly respected scientists reported a successful experiment in the production of cold fusion energy. The world would have changed massively for the better if that discovery had proven true. The methodology was explained clearly. Scientists all over the world jumped to reproduce the findings. Not one was able to.

I took huge lessons from that...

1) Even the most well-regarded in their field can see what they want to see without being con artists.
2) Enabling others to verify your results by providing the process is the ultimate in good faith. It's a statement of confidence, a guarantee even. It's embarrassing when you're wrong, but the point is that others can reproduce to confirm that you're right.

Everything else is just speculation. I don't care if 100 folks say the same thing vs 0 - it's usually just 1 or 2 originators with everyone else looking for different ways to spin the same conclusions. If the originator got it wrong (without solid study) but had some respect in the field, it's mind-boggling how replication follows.

Actually, you'll see that next week in a series of blog posts about Alexa, perhaps one of the most misunderstood tools of all. Even recent reviews in 2017 regurgitate from pre-2008 articles (because they fail to mention big changes Alexa made, still refer to it using only ONE toolbar, its own). We'll be coning that series down into tighter articles in the TNT HQ, but for those interested, check them out. :-)

Back to the "Bing Thing"...

A later blog post casts some doubt on that (2014 vs 2011)... ... yword-tag/

So I suppose that this is, if anything, an argument to keep the reduction to 1 because the tag is confirmed as being dead in terms of having any positive value. There's a small risk at Bing, if what you found, AJ, still stands. If it does, the tag could impact negatively because 1 out of 1000 times it picks up a spammy signal (pretty rare).

On the other hand..

- ONE keyword can never be viewed as spam. That we know.

- Could 5 keywords in the Meta Keyword tag POSSIBLY be considered as spam?

We covered this with Analyze It! because stuffing keywords and keyword roots into the META keyword tag was a negative factor way-way-WAY back when. It's a shame that webmasters abused it so much that engines just dropped its recognition - look at the way tagging is used well today elsewhere!

But THIS keyword tag was the first, so its fate was sealed. When SEOs learned they could game it, they did. The engines should have said, way-way-WAY back then, right at the beginning...

"Just put ONE keyword in the meta tag. Otherwise, we ignore it completely."

THAT would have given the ancient engines an exact and useful statement, as intended. It would have told the engines, clearly that "My page is about ________."

They don't need that kind of statement anymore, are way past that.

Bottom line: Bing ignores the keyword tag - it can't help you. If it still uses the tag (in doubt), it can only count negatively. Analyze It! had conditions to pick that up, but seriously...

The whole thing is just not needed anymore.

Limiting the box to 1 keyword is, if anything the safer choice. But it's probably safer to say that IF this is still a factor at Bing, you can't get into any trouble by ONLY including 1 keyword.

The reason why it's not necessary to reduce 5 on already-existing pages is that the 5 keywords have passed the algo that looked for those mistakes. So don't worry about having 5.

There's just no upside to continue to doing it, going forward.

So we simplified, as I said in most post at...

The shame of having this discussion which is such a simple little improvement is that I doubt this would even be a thing if the "use case" had not been overlooked.

I should have defined "use case" in my last post When designing software, you constantly ask yourself "what if," imagining situations that the users could get into. In complicated programs, unusual use cases get overlooked - thousands of folks get into situations that are hard to imagine.

This one should not have been overlooked. If we don't roll this back next week, that will be fixed. If we roll back to the older version next week (per the vote here), we'll do that.

Unfortunately, giving that error message led folks to believe "oh no, I've got to change all my pages." No, you don't. This will only affect META keywords going forward...

It's still my best recommendation, per my post here...

So far, the majority seems to prefer the advantages of reducing it to 1. It's my own recommendation (or we would NOT have simplified it).'

Here's what to vote on...

1) keep the new release (simplify to 1 keyword - and fix that oversight)?


2) roll it back to the way it was (5 keywords)?

Hope that helped.

All the best,

P.S. Leaving it at 5 "because it leaves both options open" is not really a valid reason because it ignores the benefits that I outlined in my previous post.

I'm really sorry for the bother of the oversight. The team just missed a nice little feature that we tried to squeeze in. I understand that resentment there, but some of the comments feel a bit "us" vs "you"...

We're all on the same team. SBI! is sort of like a really focused tennis coach. It not only does everything it can to help you play at your highest level, but to get the very most out of every second that you put into building your business.

Simplifying to 1 keyword...

- grabs a minute or two here and there
- forces a tighter think on what the page is about, which in turn...
- sends the best possible keyword for each page to the SBI! software that uses this information in several places, including the upcoming BI!4 release.

To me, this is pretty obvious/tiny. I'd spend a great deal more time if there was misunderstanding over something that was really important. See my first post for more complete info. I'll be back after the final vote count on Monday morning (or later if this thread hasn't slowed down in voting yet) to tell the programmers which direction to take.

Good weekend to all! :-)
#1370075 by Douglas from Planet Earth
Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Those that are worried that 4 or 5 keywords will now harm them, I tried something last night for fun. I typed a query into and although I forget what it was and I can't pinpoint in my history, the number one return had 22 keywords, yes 22!

The search keyword I used and as far as I could tell none of the others actually were in the website page's keywords listed.

This does not mean that this is a solid indicator as I would have to run a big bunch of these too form any kind of opinion. The website page in question would indicate that having one keyword (that didn't match my search) or having 22 keywords neither helped or hindered the page reaching number 1.

I suspect that the page had content that allowed the Google Robot to select this page for positioning. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to do a deeper study.


Doug C.
#1370119 by Kathryn from East Berlin
Mon May 01, 2017 12:15 am
My email link took me to another thread to voice my vote which I did. However, to play it safe, I am expressing my opinion again here...
My vote was for #2 mainly because I hate changes that seem to cause further problems and are confusing in the process. Apparently this change could have been introduced better - explained and error free from the start. Frankly, I do not even want to attempt any additions or modifications until I know that everything is running smoothly.
If as you say Ken that pages previously done with five key words need not be altered and we just move forward anew using just one than that doesn't sound too difficult except that I prefer more key words if it helps. I do not completely understand why it wouldn't help so I must accept what is proven to work best by those who better understand the issue. However you've also said that it would make little difference to you if it remained as before so I think users should still have the option to use one or more key words....Vote #2.
#1370140 by Sabine from the Netherlands
Mon May 01, 2017 8:36 am
My vote is for 2) Roll back please.

I'm not worried for anything, but I use the keyword tool to remind me about synonyms which I want to mention on the page.
#1370242 by Jim from Helm
Tue May 02, 2017 7:20 pm
If option 2 is selected, will using only 1 keyword improve AIt!?

In other words, does using more than 1 keyword cause AnalyzeIt! problems? Sometimes, when trying to meet AIt! keyword recommendations, I seem to be fixing nothing. Sorry, I don't have any current examples to use as illustrations.

What several posts suggest is that the extra keywords work as a personal reference point for the page builder. Any reason the extra keywords (those beyond the first comma) must be included in the meta tag? Why not just use the first keyword (one of more words of text) in the meta tag and ignore everything else? Let the page builder keep the extra keywords for personal reference.

In the same way, just use the first keyword for AIt! if it improves the analysis.

I really don't see why it can't be left as it was and just pick up the first keyword for the meta tag and for analysis. That would meet everyones needs and preferences.
#1370330 by Timothy from Glen Hope
Wed May 03, 2017 7:41 pm
Well you can't please everybody. I am an UYOHer so for me updating the keyword box/metatag has to be done manually. When I do that I find it conflicting with AnalyzeIt (AI) more and more. Not always are the page filename and main keyword going be the same. Too many times I am asking myself, what should the specific keyword be? One word, two words or a keyword phrase? What about long hyphenated page names?

Then bingo, I concluded that AI can't possibly be right all the time. There will be conflicts with what AI says is best practice and what seems right to me. For instance my website "Best Website Tools" Should the specific keyword be 'best' because it's first. I think not. How about 'best website tools?' Should that be my main keyword? Yes, but it's 3 words long. And the word 'best' is considered an adjective not suited for key words. So. 'website tools' it is. But that is not the first word in my domain name. Yikes, that won't pass AI.

So for now I am going to visit each of my pages and update the key words with 'a' specific keyword whether or not that happens to be one, two or more keywords it will match the file name. Then I will make sure all the other keywords I want appear in the meta tag 'description.'

Got me thinking, why did we use to want 5 keywords in the first place? Answer 'long tail.' We wanted other long tail keywords that would get searched for. So, now. without the 'long tail' keywords being spelled out, I want to make sure they are included in the meta tag 'description.'

Okay, that sounds like moving words around to manipulate the search engines. Won't that incur more penalties? (With my luck, probably.) Who knows? Google is so fickle they change their header logo daily.

I am going to re-visit all my website pages now and delete 'long tail' keywords, even though my gut tells me this is a mistake.

#1370334 by Juri from
Wed May 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Tim, before you start:

  • Five keywords don't mean long tail. They literally mean five different keywords, separated by commas. Each of these keywords can be just one word or a long tail phrase on its own.
  • It is absolutely not necessary to change anything in your old pages. There is no sign that retaining them as they are can, and even less so will harm you.
The whole thing freaks me out. It was needed just like a hole in the head.

Kind regards,
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