SBI!'s Brainstormer builds an amazing list of keywords. You work with that list in the MKL. Add, find and sort, of course. MKL shines when you use functions such as Seeds, Groups, Filters, Columns, Get Google $. Set up tasks or use pre-defined ones. Discuss keyword profitability, supply and demand.
Caveat: Computers do NOT think. Humans do. Don't become "number-bound." - use human JUDGMENT, too!

Moderator: Mary from Mico

#1378408 by David from California
Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:38 am
340 kw with Profitability over 20,000

19 had a Real Supply of 1.

Sounds great.

But that is not the stark reality.

For example, "entry ..." showed Demand 1071, Supply 1

But when I Googled that KW, the top ten spots were huge sites; all ranking less than 25,000 on Alexa.

The same for the other so-called low supply keywords that I checked.

What's going on?
#1378409 by Douglas from Planet Earth
Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:48 am
Hi David,

I have found the same problem for a long time now. When someone tries to explain it, the answers don't satisfy me in any way shape or form. When I first started, I picked really good numbers but they change constantly. Not just a bit, a whole bunch. A keyword that looked wonderful at a precise moment is then garbage the next time you check.

I'd like a real well thought out explanation beside: "Oh they are always going up and down". That's fine if it's small corrections but not when they go one way or the other in the thousands? Is it GIGO? I don't know.

Cheers,

Doug C.
#1378425 by Adrian from fixingscreens.com
Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:00 pm
I have had much the same experience with keyword research in the MKL but as the action guide says, the results are just numbers and you really have to check further to verify real demand

For years I have relied on the SiteInfo button in the MKL to vet high profitability results. It often shows me that there are already 10 websites with low Alexa rankings. I take that as meaning its going to be next to impossible to rank for that keyword, high profitability or not.

Profitability is just demand divided by supply multipled by 1000, nowhere is the quality of the keyword measured or weighted beyond the fact that real supply reports websites who are actively monetizing the keyword in question. Its truly just a starting point

In fairness, the top ten results in SiteInfo often shows me results like Pinterest, Wikipedia and reviews in Amazon, Home Depot and Lowes where content can be added to an existing high ranking website. That information is often worth building a page using the keyword to refer visitors from those existing top ten ranked sites.

Looking at the top ten results in Google is interesting too but in this day and age Google results are often weighted in favour of local results and the top ten may not be representative. For example if only powerful results show up in your Google top ten whats to say your page might not make it in their based on its geographic location. Ive seen local sites with non existent Alexa ranking in top ten Google results alongside powerful corporate sites.

Another thing the results of SiteInfo underscores is the power of paying for keyword ranking. If you have millions to spend, like the big corporate sites do, you can rank for dozens of keywords with little more than ecommerce sales pages with next to no content at all.

However, over the years I have found my share of good keywords starting first with profitability figures over 1000. Keywords I picked back in 2005 still perform well in spite of the MKL results going up and down depending on the day you check.

It might be better if the MKL reported annual demand, but of course if it did you would miss a lot of the trending keywords that exist and might only have been rising for the past few days or weeks. Im particularily prone to variable results because checking screen repair results in December is bound to yield poor results. Check the same keyword in May and everything suddenly looks great.

I can literally spend days researching one keyword to prove that the profitability is real. What I do now is i look at groups of keywords with the same basic search intent. Using all of them on the same page and picking what I feel is the best one for the page URL. Its like hedging your bets. Picking groups of keywords also makes it a little easier to write and organize the page content.

In defence of the MKL I still start with high profitability values. Its a reasonable place to begin. And even if you dont do the research i have talked about its also feasible that you end up using a range of different keywords when you write your page. Over time you see reults to the page that might cause you to rewrite using a different keyword or end up leave it alone because it does well

Still Brainstorm It / MKL gives you a huge range of tools that do work even if you have to work at them.
#1378488 by David from California
Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:40 pm
Adrain, I agree with you totally and use BI for all my keyword research.

Still, if there are 10 huge sites with the exact same keyword, BI should be returning at least a supply of 10 (really, more than 10, see comments further down).

More important, it scares me to think of all the newbies who find a "treasure" of a niche, put loads of energy into it, and then find out a year later that they cannot compete.

What needs clarifying is - that a keyword is not an isolated object to Google. Pages with lots of related information but not that exact keyword are going to be your competition. Google will place them higher than your new page even if Google says supply for that particular keywords is very low.

For example, the keyword "jobs in Indonesia" could have high demand and show only a one site supplying pages with that keyword.

However, "indonesia jobs" may have very high supply. Also "jobs indonesia" could have a very high supply, or "employment in indonesia."

A newbie could get very excited about low-supply, high-demand kw "jobs in indonesia" and not understand that he/she will be competing with the pages supplying the other closely-related kw.

It would be better for BI to have a system that groups all related keywords, adds up supply and demand, and then gives the average numbers.

jobs in indonesia - demand 1000, supply 1
indonesia jobs - demand 800 supply 800
jobs indonesia - demand 500 supply 100

Realistic results for any one of those keywords in BI would show demand 1000, supply 800 or something along those lines.

Comments?
#1378516 by Adrian from fixingscreens.com
Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:25 pm
Hi David;

Averaging the demand sounds like an interesting idea but I think the resulting number would not really tell you anything. It appears that "jobs in indonesia" is more of an outlier in statistical terms. The question is do you discard that outlier as an anomaly, or is it really a piece of low hanging fruit ?

The term "jobs in indonesia" does lend itself surprisingly well to page building. Just pulling off some of the usages from Google both in listings and reccomended searches yields a list of page headings and sub headings that pretty much give you all you need to make a 3000 to 5000 word article. Just fill in the missing paragraphs and reorganize.

If I had pictures from Indonesia that matched the types of jobs being discussed, a really nice page could be built that would look better than practically all of the competing pages presently listed, which seem to be overwhelmingly job listing sites.

jobs in indonesia for foreigners
jobs in indonesia for english speakers
Most common jobs in indonesia
jobs in indonesia for indian freshers
Hotel jobs inn indonesia forindian
Telecomunication engineer jobs in indonesia
Construction jobs in indonesia
Oil and gas jobs in indonesia
Software development jobs in indonesia
Mining jobs in indonesia
Engineering jobs in indonesia
Teaching jobs in indonesia
Most common jobs in indonesia
Engineering jobs in indonesia

I get that you wouldnt be able to use the keyword with such frequency but I'm inclined to think this keyword would do well in the hands of someone from Jakarta with a good knowledge of the Indonesian job market.

Its nicely monetizable too, with all those job listing sites and their affiliate programs.

I've written my share of duds, but It does seem to be a piece of low hanging fruit !
#1378542 by Wendy C (EelKat) from La Puente
Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:07 pm
Not sure if this helps, but...

Demand 99 Supply 1 on a keyword, means...

99 people searched for that keyword in the past 28 days
1 site had that keyword as their EXACT url

writing tips fantasy demand = 99 supply = 1

99 people searched for "writing fantasy tips" in the past 28 days
1 site had that keyword as their EXACT url: mysite.com/writing-fantasy-tips

I'll explain using keywords from my own mkl, because I can see those numbers...


how to write novel demand = 175 supply = 4
how to write a novel demand = 2336 supply = 668
how to write fantasy demand = 84 supply = 18
how to write fiction demand = 505 supply = 141


This means, that in the past 28 days 175 people typed "how to write novel" into Google search box, while 2,336 people typed "how to write a novel" in the search box instead.

supply means...

4 sites have that EXACT keyword EXACTLY WITH NO VARIATION in the url...

mysite.com/how-to-write-novel

note, it will not include:

mysite.com/howtowritenovel
mysite.com/HowToWriteNovel
mysite.com/How-To-Write-Novel
mysite.com/how-to-write-a-novel
mysite.com/how-to-write-novels
etc.


while 668 sites had the other EXACT keyword EXACTLY WITH NO VARIATION in the url...

mysite.com/how-to-write-a-novel

On the other hand...

This means, that in the past 28 days 84 people typed "how to write fantasy" into Google search box, while 505 people typed "how to write fiction" in the search box instead.

supply means...

18 sites have that EXACT keyword EXACTLY WITH NO VARIATION in the url...

mysite.com/how-to-write-fantasy

while 141 sites had the other EXACT keyword EXACTLY WITH NO VARIATION in the url...

mysite.com/how-to-write-fiction


Brainstorm search only for EXACT url

so, these sites...

mysite.com/how-to-write-fiction-novels
mysite.com/how-to-write-fantasy-novels
mysite.com/how-to-write-a-fantasy-novel
mysite.com/how-to-write-novels
mysite.com/howtowritenovel
mysite.com/howtowritenovels
mysite.com/HowToWriteNovel
mysite.com/HowToWriteNovels
mysite.com/How-To-Write-Novel
mysite.com/How-To-Write-Novels
mysite.com/how-to-write-a-novel
mysite.com/how-2-write-novels
mysite.com/how-I-write-fiction-novels
mysite.com/how-Terry-Pratchett-writes-fantasy-novels
mysite.com/how-to-write-a-great-novel
mysite.com/how-to-write-better-novels
etc

will not show up in Brainstormer's results of Demand vs Supply... BUT those sites WILL show up in Google search results

Meaning while Brainstormer tells you only 4 sites have a supply for "how to write novel", Google is going to bring back tens of thousands of sites for that search term, not just the ones with that EXACT keyword in the url, the way Brainstormer is doing.

Does that explain better why your results from Brainstormer seem to be off, from what Google and Alexia are telling you?

Keep in mind too, that next month, you may get totally different numbers, because next month there may be 5,000+ people searching for the keyword "how to write novel" and then the month after that, maybe only 3 people search for it.

The Brainstorm numbers of demand change EVERY DAY, so if I search today it shows me the numbers from 28 days ago, to today, but when I search tomorrow it shows me the numbers 28 days from tomorrow, so it'll no longer include search results from the 1st day shown yesterday. (Does that make sense?)

It is because of this variation that is constantly changing every day, that is why, before I make a new page, I take the search term Brainstormer gave me and I search for that EXACT term on:

Google
Bing
DuckDuckGo
DogPile
YahooAnswers
Reddit
YouTube
Amazon

and any other search engine I'm thinking of at the time... to see just exactly what results I get from each one.

I then open the top 10 results from each search engine to see which sites are my top competitors for that EXACT search term (Reddit & YahooAnswers shows me what forum posts on the topic are currently be talked about, so I can see directly what people are talking about, not just what site articles are saying, YouTube allows me to find on topic videos to embed into my article if I write it, while Amazon shows me any products on the topic I can feature should I decide to write an article on the topic)

(Keeping in mind "how to write novel" brings back different results then "how to write a novel", so I search for both variations.)

In the end, I use Brainstormer, not as a "know all source" but rather as a way to find out what search terms are trending in my topic.

For example, when Vampires were "in", lots of people were searching for "how to write vampires" and "how to write a vampire romance". But now that vampires are out of fashion, you hardly ever see those search terms any more.

I like Brainstormer because it allows me to see what the current trends are in my niche, by allowing me to see the most searched for keywords of my niche in the last 28 days.

For me, that's how I use Brainstormer. I generally don't pay much attention to the supply or profitability sections. I'm only really interested in seeing which ones rank highest in the demand second, then researching other sites to see if my site is appropriate to cover that trend as well, or should I focus on a different trending term instead?

I hope I explained that so it made sense.
#1378548 by Douglas from Planet Earth
Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:11 pm
Wendy,

Not sure if this helps, but..


Are you kidding? That is the best explanation I ever had heard about keywords! Thank you for taking the time to explain. Bravo. Now I shall copy, paste and print to keep on hand.

Cheers,

Doug C.
#1378554 by Mary from old-fashion-recipe.com
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:56 am
Wendy,

Not sure if this helps, but..


WOW! Even before I got to Douglas's reply I was blown away and thought this is a tutorial. I never knew this information about how BI/MKL. works!

Thank you so much. I plan to spend an hour or two tonight working on this. This will be fun to check out and I know it will make a difference on my next page. I'm still going... WOW! :D

Thank you David for starting this thread!

MaryO
#1378584 by David from California
Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:55 pm
Thank you for your comments :)

Adrian: The Indonesia example was just a hypothetical situation. I did not look up those keywords at all, I was just "supposing." I have no idea what the real numbers are.

Wendy: Lots of work on your part! My post was meant to say only that BI is very misleading for newbies and needs to reflect what Google is actually reporting - that "writing fiction" for example to Google is the same as "fiction writing" where BI is misleading saying that the numbers are totally different. For newbies this could cause serious errors in what pages they decide to write about. This needs to be clarified some way to so that people with little experience don't get misled.

Also, where did you get that info about BI changing KW Supply/Demand numbers every 28 days? I would like to read that for myself :)

Again, I do use BI all the time and have for the past 8 years.

But it is very misleading to folks with even years of experience.

:) Comments?
#1378589 by Help Elf from SiteSell
Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:36 pm
As with previous pronouncements from Wendy, this one is also full of inaccuracies.

A Value Demand number of 175 for a keyword, regardless of what the keyword is, does not mean 175 people are searching for it!

Value Demand is a calculated number, based on the demand for the number from Wordtracker, which itself is based on data from several meta search engines, plus an indication of how valuable the keyword is in terms of monetization. So, for these two keywords from Wendy...

how to write novel demand = 175 supply = 4
how to write a novel demand = 2336 supply = 668


... it's highly likely that...

a) demand is higher for "how to write a novel" because that's how people think when searching. They don't drop the "a." And, it's highly more likely that, because "how to write a novel" is the more natural way to write that search query, it's going to be more monetizable as well (that is, advertisers are more likely to pay for that keyword, and possibly pay more for it, than they would for "how to write novel."

Now, let's look at supply.

Real Supply also is not an indication of the number of other pages using a keyword, as Wendy thinks. Real Supply is also a calculated number, based on the number of pages "out there" on the Web that use that keyword but also taking into account the quality of each of those pages. For example, a page that has the sentence "People who ask how to write a novel are people who shouldn't write a novel" will not make it into the Real Supply calculation, even though Google will return that page as one that contains the keyword "how to write a novel," and will probably return it for "how to write novel" as well.

From Wendy's example...

supply means...

4 sites have that EXACT keyword EXACTLY WITH NO VARIATION in the url...

mysite.com/how-to-write-novel

note, it will not include:

mysite.com/howtowritenovel
mysite.com/HowToWriteNovel
mysite.com/How-To-Write-Novel
mysite.com/how-to-write-a-novel
mysite.com/how-to-write-novels
etc.


This is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT (ALL CAPS deliberate, to make a very important point here...

Real Supply of 4 does not mean that only four sites use "how-to-write-novel" as the file name of the page. It doesn't even mean that there are only 4 pages using that keyword. It does mean that Brainstorm It! believes that there are so few pages that are well written, have valuable information and contain "how to write novel" in them, that it can only give the keyword a score of 4.

Again, it does not mean that there are only 4 pages using "how-to-write-novel" as the file name.

while 668 sites had the other EXACT keyword EXACTLY WITH NO VARIATION in the url...

mysite.com/how-to-write-a-novel


Exactly the same holds for this "how-to-write-a-novel." There are likely thousands of pages using that keyword, and there could be dozens, or 5, or 668, or thousands, using "how-to-write-a-novel" as the file name.

And while Wendy is correct that Real Supply numbers are different from Google's numbers, it's not for the reason she indicates. Google checks its database for "how to write a novel" and sees that there are thousands if not millions (I didn't check) of pages with that keyword. It doesn't tell you that perhaps as many as 10% of them use the keyword on a sales page, and that perhaps another 20% use it but the page itself isn't about "how to write a novel."

That's the point of Real Supply. It only returns a number based on the number of pages that are actually about "how to write a novel" (that is, there are instructions or advice on how to do it) and are written well enough for you, someone who has been trained to write only quality, high value content, to compete with.

I hope that answers your concerns with reality, not someone's opinion of what Value Demand and Real Supply mean. If you want to confirm what I've written here, please, please READ THE HELP!!!

http://help.sitesell.com/brainstormit/index.html

Scroll down the page until you see the words Value Demand and Real Supply as links on a light blue background. Yellow overlays will open, explaining them for you.
#1378590 by Harvey from Woodbridge
Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:36 pm
I have no explanation as to why BI! fluctuates so much. To be honest, I only look at groups of words with the same intent and take a rough average. Never taken much notices of individual keywords.

Just wanted to comment on something in Wendy's post...

Wendy C (EelKat) from La Puente wrote:how to write novel demand = 175 supply = 4
how to write a novel demand = 2336 supply = 668
how to write fantasy demand = 84 supply = 18
how to write fiction demand = 505 supply = 141

This means, that in the past 28 days 175 people typed "how to write novel" into Google search box, while 2,336 people typed "how to write a novel" in the search box instead.


It's not correct that value demand equals the # of Google searches. Check out the actual definition of VD here...

http://help.sitesell.com/brainstormit/value-demand.html

I target the term "how to write a novel." A quick look in Google Search Console shows that in the past 28 days my site was returned 13,797 times for the exact search "how to write a novel."

That's a lot higher than 2,336. And it only includes the number of times folks made that search AND my site showed up in the results.

--

Another example...

"dialogue writing" (exact query)

In BI!...
Demand = 58
Supply = 157

In Google Search Console...
14,173 impressions in last 28 days (for that exact query)

Weird. :?

All the best,
Harvey

Edited to add: Looks like HE and I posted simultaneously.
#1378598 by Douglas from Planet Earth
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:19 pm
Well!

Now I'm just all confused again. So, back to the old drawing board. I think I'll just go back to being me again. Rogue Pirate breaking all the rules. That's what our crew did when I was a submariner. Full speed ahead. Darn ("Things are too sensitive to use the other "bad" word) the torpedoes. ARRRRRR! Matey!

Cheers,

Doug C.
Last edited by Douglas from Planet Earth on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1378599 by Douglas from Planet Earth
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:30 pm
As Your friendly neighborhood (or neighbourhood) Help Elf. said:

As with previous pronouncements from Wendy, this one is also full of inaccuracies.


Doesn't sound all that friendly Help Elf. OH NO! I'm getting all "sensitive" and my "feeeelings" might get hurt. :lol:

I don't know how to act or say things anymore in this screwed up world. Hopefully nobody will take anything I posted here the wrong way. Sigh! :?

Cheers,

Doug C.
#1378619 by Mary from old-fashion-recipe.com
Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:07 pm
Hi Douglas!

Douglas from [Domain Private] wrote:

Now I'm just all confused again. So, back to the old drawing board
r

I swear you are reading my mind lately. And I'm not kidding. Just as I hit the reply button I see something you have said that I was going to say. Um...

Help Elf: Thank you for your clarification of how BI! works. However, like Douglas, I'm back to being as confused and back to the drawing board.

I appreciate you stating that Wendy's post was a pronouncement (opinion) instead of an announcement (fact).

MaryO
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