SBI!'s Brainstormer builds an amazing list of keywords. You work with that list in the MKL. Add, find and sort, of course. MKL shines when you use functions such as Seeds, Groups, Filters, Columns, Get Google $. Set up tasks or use pre-defined ones. Discuss keyword profitability, supply and demand.
Caveat: Computers do NOT think. Humans do. Don't become "number-bound." - use human JUDGMENT, too!

Moderator: Mary from Mico

#1386271 by Katia, Anastasi, Apostoli from We Love Crete
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:44 am
Hi All,

I would love your collective help to assist in re-naming a page and setting a new keyword phrase.

This is the page which is all about Athens, the capital of Greece, and tips for a short stay. This is a T2 page with about 4 other Athens topics coming off it.

[Domain Private]/athens-stopover.html

The keyword phrase is 'athens stopover' which has: Demand 39 Supply 25 and Profitability of 1560

39 25 1560

We setup this page back in the early days, when we didn't understand the MKL! :oops:

Not that we are much better now, which is why we need your help. Can anyone suggest a better keyword phrase for this page and give the numbers and why we would choose this? :?: It would really help us to learn about how to choose, sometimes the numbers just go around and around in front of our eyes :roll:

Or should we not change?

This page ranks at 10 at Google and 1 at Bing and Yahoo search results.

Also, the term 'stopover' is not universal, as some visitors prefer the term 'layover'. So perhaps it is time for a change.

Any ideas?

Thanking you in anticipation... :)

#1386276 by Mary from Mico
Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:31 am
Hi Katia.

Interesting question.

I'm wondering how much traffic this page gets. I would think that that would determine whether you need to change anything or not. I'd be inclined not to change too much, especially the file name as you may lose that high ranking.

Don't fix your eyes on the MKL numbers for now. The algorithms in BI have changed and may not reflect the full stats for your term.

Even though I recognize what a stopover might be, I would not equate it with a layover. I might purposefully stop for one or two days while on a trip, yet I see a layover as something enforced on me by airline schedules. They can be too short so as to make it scary to make connections, or too long as we found with a 17 hour layover for one ticket we wanted to buy recently.

Reading from the top of the page to which you linked, I would think that you're offering ideas for a day trip rather than a true layover between flights. Are the layovers long enough in Athens that one would truly have time to go to museums and sites of interest, etc?

I guess my perspective of a layover is different from the lovely info you have on this page. I'd not plan to sight see or get a hotel for a layover, there is just not enough time. Even the 17 hour layover was iffy. By the time you take into account travel time to and from the airport; two meals; and finding, registering, and settling at a hotel -
seventeen hours does not leave much time for an enjoyable visit or a guided tour in my imagination.

Of course, I'm thinking of the long lines in Paris, Dulles, Atlanta.... Maybe this is not the case in Athens?

Or maybe it really is a second keyword, meaning that the two are truly two different concepts.

'Just some ideas.

Astonishingly beautiful page, by the way! I would surely study your site if I were going to Greece/Athens/Crete. I love the pictures of you "in action" or "on the field" in the pictures at the bottom. They really drew me down the page, which makes me think that, if you're going to change this page, you might want to move one of those pictures toward the top or add a new one.

As I continue down the page I see the video called 36 hours in Athens. (I do not have time to look at the videos, but sure would if I were traveling - they're a great inclusion) This makes me wonder if 36 hours is a common layover time in Athens, meaning that one could make this layover into a stopover....

Wonderful page! Sorry to ramble. I might surely only add more descriptions around the pictures. Remember to add the keyword if you're going to add content so you do not dilute the page's focus on that keyword.

Otherwise, I'm interested in what others have to say about your beautiful page.

#1386291 by Jacki from Macleod
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:33 pm
I wouldn't mess with a page that has any kind of ranking. Build on the success, with pages like 20 Things to Do on a 36 Hour Layover etc, but leave the original page as it is.
#1386491 by Katia, Anastasi, Apostoli from We Love Crete
Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:03 am
Hi All,

Thanks all for your comments.

Stopover and layover are sounding like the same thing. Essentially it was, in the past, the gap between flights, but the gap can be extended from 8 hours to 3 days to see a destination which is 'on the way to' somewhere else. Semantics I think. It is a short stop in a place.

I don't agree about this page - that is not a good score for a T2 page. Surely with low demand like that, nobody is seeing it.

I mustn't understand the mkl, which is why I was asking for help. :(

I will keep that page but make it a T3 coming off a new page which will be my new 'athens' main page. I will post another question on this MKL forum to get help choosing the keyword phrase for that page.

These are the ones I am looking at in my Brainstormer - but I will post on a new page so I get some answers.

Thanks all :)ImageImage

#1386494 by Mary from Mico
Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:35 am
Hi Katia,

Again, I would leave this page unchanged. I really like it as it is and think that you would also lose the traffic or ranking that you have. You can still link to it from your Athens page.

Since your site is more specifically about Crete, I think that it makes sense to look at Athens from the perspective of Crete (layover, etc.) Is your intent to have new T2s for the major cities and sites in the larger Greece area?

How much traffic does it get in the different seasons?

If it gets good traffic and/or good ad money, I would certainly not change it. It is a very good page on its own and is logically enough of a T2 for Crete (layovers in other cities?)....

Said as one who's lost rankings and traffic by changing pages. :oops::shock:

#1386497 by Katia, Anastasi, Apostoli from We Love Crete
Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 am
Hi Mary,

Yes I will not change it but will create ANOTHER page at a T2 main Athens page and link this one off it
Thanks, I thought I had made that clear. Yes thanks for sharing your experience with changing pages. :?

How do I know how much traffic this individual page gets? :?:

Do not know how much traffic it gets currently, but I cannot imagine it is very high as the demand is so low.

Kind regards
#1386538 by Dee from Cape Cod
Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:57 pm

Hi Katia -

Katia, Anastasi, Apostoli from We Love Crete wrote:Do not know how much traffic it gets currently, but I cannot imagine it is very high as the demand is so low.

In my experience, the demand number is not necessarily a reliable indicator of how much traffic a page will actually get. Some pages on my site have very low numbers (e.g., demand of 26 and supply of 3). During prime Cape Cod vacation season, I get thousands of visitors per month from those pages.

So don't rely on the demand numbers. Before you make major changes to your page(s) or scrap a page altogether, check your actual stats as Debs recommended!

Best Regards,

#1386571 by Katia, Anastasi, Apostoli from We Love Crete
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:45 am
Thanks All,

Yes the only way one could see the traffic is to see if it is in the top of the list of visited pages and it isnt

No, I don't have the other programs to see what the traffic is on an individual page. I will search these forums to find out what they are.

Yes, I understand that demand doesnt dictate traffic but realistically - it can't be that high if the demand is not that high.

Anyway, I have decided to keep the page!

See other question on this same forum, thanks for comments all! :)

Thanks all

#1386579 by Dee from Cape Cod
Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:03 am
Katia, Anastasi, Apostoli from We Love Crete wrote:Yes, I understand that demand doesnt dictate traffic but realistically - it can't be that high if the demand is not that high.

Sorry to belabor the point, Katia; but actual traffic to a page can be enormously higher than the demand numbers shown for that page's keyword/keyword phrase in BI. I've seen it with my own site, as I said above.

If you conclude that a keyword or keyword phrase is "terrible" solely based on the demand/suppy numbers shown in BI, you're doing yourself a dis-service, IMHO. Some of those low demand (per BI) keywords/phrases can generate significant traffic. If you miss out on that traffic, you're also missing out on the potential income those visitors could bring you. :(

Of course, this is just my opinion based on my own experience. You and others may see it differently. :wink:

Best Regards,

#1386580 by Katia, Anastasi, Apostoli from We Love Crete
Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:21 am
Hi Dee and All,

Thanks or your comments.

Yes, but in the selection of a T2 I am guessing that demand of 49 is not a good idea?

I understand that we all have great success with long tail unexpected keywords.

But they are exceptions.

I am trying to understand the proper planning process of selecting a keyword phrase using the MKL as a guide, and I think that means paying attention to demand supply and profitability. :!:

Otherwise I will just keep on going on my own merry way selecting random keyword phrases which suck and wasting my precious time on a website for 10 years with no real results and ready to throw in the towel!

Thanks again

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