All you ever need to build traffic is in the various HQs of Solo Build It! (other traffic-related topics in DAY 9 of the AG, see those forums below, too). Gotta great idea or a question that's not covered elsewhere? For example, even solopreneurs can start their own affiliate programs to build traffic and income - need help with that? This is the right spot for you.

Moderators: Stephen from Monroeville, Wendy from Toronto

#1394307 by Harvey from Woodbridge
Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:02 pm

Hi Walter,

Yes, thanks for starting this great thread - and to all the contributors for a high-level discussion.

Regarding your initial question...

Has anyone experienced a significant relationship between the length of the page and the traffic / income that it generates?


It's worth separating that into 2 questions...

1) Is there a relationship between page length and organic traffic?

In my experience - yes, absolutely. The bigger, the better. :-) But the BIGGGGG caveat is that I'm in an educational niche (novel writing), meaning my ideal visitor is looking for comprehensive coverage. (A 1,000-word page on "how to plot a novel" ain't gonna even scratch the surface.)

If I were in a niche where folks wanted fast information, then loooooooonnng pages would be a total turnoff.

An example...

I used to a have a short page (about 1,000 words) on writing dialogue, together with a bunch of associated TIER 3 pages (again, all of them short). Collectively, all those pages generated a few hundred visitors a month.

A couple of years ago, I deleted most of the TIER 3s, added them to the main page, boiled it all down to keep it concise and ended up with a 4,500-word page.

(Not so long, I know, but it still demands a reasonable time commitment from my readers.)

In the last 30 days, that page had 18,000 Entrances. (19% of all traffic.) So, yes, I experienced a definite correlation between page length and traffic.

(Incidentally, I don't think it's that Google favours long pages per se. But long pages can generate good user metrics (like 5:30 average time on page). And they're probably better at generating organic links, too.)

Bottom line on page length?

The way to generate a ton of traffic is for your page to be 10x better than anything else out there.

One way (but not the only way) to be 10x better is to cover a topic in huge detail (which inevitably leads to a long page).

Just understand that a long page, if it's not to send readers to sleep, must also be concise. (Which is totally different to "short".)

--

Next question...

2) Is there a relationship between organic traffic and income?

Yes and no...

Yes because having more people visit a page leads to more people clicking an ad, or purchasing a book, or whatever the case may be. That's a mathematical certainty.

No because a page with a ton of traffic can generate far less income than a page with much less traffic... if the second page is more commercial.

"Writing Dialogue" (the long page I mentioned above) is NOT an especially commercial topic. Yes, it generates the most AdSense income, but only because it gets the most amount of traffic (by a mile).

But in terms of revenue per 1,000 impressions (RPM), the most profitable topics in my niche (by a mile) are the commercial topics you might expect...

- How to get published
- Novel writing software.

In other words, the key to maximizing passive income is to be selective about which pages you choose to "go long" on. No sense getting a gazillion visitors to a page that is NOT fertile ground for ads.

That's why, currently, I'm working on my publishing page. Right now, it's visited by one man and a dog (deservedly so). Once I've given it the "shock and awe" treatment, I hope to watch the traffic rise AND benefit from much higher AdSense earnings.

--

The final thing to say is that passive income is NOT the way to make the most money. But then you know that already, right?

I used to sell membership subscriptions, but it took up too much time (dealing with pesky customers and creating a constant stream of new content for them).

After that, I took the "easier" option of selling everything I'd written in ebooks. Sales were disappointingly low, though. And I still had to help 1 or 2 people a day who'd purchased the ebooks but couldn't sideload them onto their reading devices (despite detailed instructions :? ).

That's when I decided to publish everything online for free (an extra 200,000 words of material), monetize through AdSense & get on with the thing I REALLY love (writing fiction :D ).

So although passive income is definitely NOT the way to go to get rich, it IS the way to go if you have something more valuable to do with all the time you save.

Or if you can't stand dealing with customers. :wink:

All the best,
Harvey
#1394310 by walter from Bednesti
Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:33 pm
Thank you Harvey, for pointing me in the right direction.

I will make the effort to create commercially-attractive pages on my new site. Commercially attractive in the sense of being a good medium for the ads and also (if I can figure it out - considering my site concept) telling the visitors how to to make money.

Have noticed long time ago that the people who make most of the money online are those who teach others how to make money. Nothing sells better than good info on a how to sell something.

Walter
#1394407 by Cindy from Bradgate
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:06 pm
Wow - thank you for this thread and the replies and, Wendy, thank you for all the info. While I know I could not do what you do, it is very inspirational and there are many aspects I can use/try in my own business! This is a great thread and I will read and re-read it each day for a while! :D
#1394470 by walter from Bednesti
Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:52 pm
My old (9years) local-traffic-oriented site does not have a lot of traffic. It never had, however, it used to be always on the first page of searches for its main keyword "toronto hypnosis", and that's all that has ever counted in terms of driving the traffic to my office.

The site does not show on the first page for that keyword anymore - I've stopped writing (a few years now).

It shows now on the 3-rd page. However, this doesn't matter much because people who are searching for what I offer usually enter a multiple word searches. They input the condition they suffer from, therapeutic modality they want to use and the location of their residence. And under the keywords: "anxiety toronto hypnosis", "depression toronto hypnosis", "anger toronto hypnosis" and some other keywords, the site keeps on showing itself on the first page of the searches - so, yes, the SBI site really delivers but this is not what I want to talk here about.

What I want to put under discussion is the fact that all of these multiple keywords DO NOT bring up the pages which are associated with them.

What they bring up is my home page.

My home page is relatively long. It is the longest page on my site (4,500 words).

So basically this page gets most of the traffic. It accounts for the 10-20% of the total page views.

Can anyone share his / her experience with very long home pages?

Does it matter if a home page is long or short in terms of how much traffic it generates?

Walter
#1396068 by Don from Narnia
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:45 pm

Hi Everyone,

First, my thanks to Walter who began this interesting thread and to all who've made contributions.

walter from Bednesti wrote:Has anyone experienced a significant relationship between the length of the page and the traffic / income that it generates?

Most of the pages on my 424-page recipe site are averaging around 500 words. I don't have any that I'd define as super long or anywhere close to Wendy's in length, but I do have a good handful of pages that are over 1000 words. Curious to see how they perform, I went to GA and examined my top 20 traffic pages:

01 T2 = 508 words
02 T2 = 595 words
03 T2 = 439 words
04 T3 = 1924 words (05:06)
05 T3 = 1632 words (03:42)
06 Homepage = 1196 words
07 T2 = 545 words
08 T3 = 704 words
09 T3 = 1775 words (04:25)
10 T3 = 2657 words (04:16)
11 T3 = 1310 words (05:15)
12 T2 = 559 words
13 T3 = 529 words
14 T2 = 546 words
15 T2 = 663 words
16 T3 = 1639 words (02:11)
17 T2 = 471 words
18 T3 = 703 words
19 T3 = 1909 Words (02:17)
20 T3 = 1133 words (04:26)

So, of my top 20 traffic pages, I was surprised to find 9 with more than 1000 words, all T3, except for the homepage. That was more than I expected. I'm unsure how many 1000-word-plus pages my site has in total, but I know it well enough to determine that the longer pages are all within the top 100, drawing more traffic than average-size pages, and tending to have the highest visitor Time on Page.

The longer pages are topic focussed and all contain multiple recipes; however, my 4th most popular page has nothing to do with recipes, it's a 1924-word T3 page focussed on one of my interests, [url=[Domain Private]/aeolian-harp.html]Aeolian harps[/url], yet it fits well with the nostalgic-historical theme of my site, and it draws a high share of site traffic.

Something I've learned from my analysis is that I need to review the wording of my page Titles and Descriptions to make searchers more aware that the recipe pages are comprehensive and not designed for those in search of a single recipe or a quick read. Visitor's expectations often relate to bounce rate.

For instance, I have page Titles for "Recipe" and "Recipes" and I noticed that some of my pages titled "Recipe" have a slightly higher bounce rate. It could be that visitors who arrive expecting a single recipe and a quick read are finding multiple recipes and quickly bounce away.

Reader's attention spans have definitely decreased in recent years. The other day, I wanted to see what Car and Driver website had to say about a new car I've been considering, and the comprehensive article by Jeff Sabatini began with the words...

"Too long; didn't read," abbreviated "tl;dr" by Internet commenters who can't be bothered to spell out all of four words, could be our new national motto, a reflection of society's shrinking attention span. Twitter's generous doubling of its character limit notwithstanding, we live in a world that tends to ignore complex ideas that can't be dumbed down to fit on a TV ticker. Which might explain why, according to one firm's research, 73 percent of consumers have no idea what a plug-in hybrid is.

Imagine: tl;dr —too long; didn't read!

Is this what we're facing on today's Internet?

There appears to be two types of visitors: those who want the full treatment of a topic, and those who simply want a quick fix before bouncing away.

I suspect it takes careful planning to satisfy both, whereas my site caters to those wanting more. I've discovered that my shortest recipe pages (under 400 words) are simply not pulling their weight, so I'll either combine them or add their content to current pages covering the same topic.

For those of us publishing longer pages, Debs makes a good point:

Debs from SiteSell wrote:I think if you do a super long page, you may want to consider at which points within the content you will insert your call to action (to get your MWR), in case you lose some visitors if they feel the page is too long.

AdSense is the one monetization method that has consistently worked for my site, and their new Auto Ads work well for inserting ads (my MWR) within the longer content.

Walter, your thread has proved interesting.

I'm still pondering everything.

Regards,
#1396070 by Don from Narnia
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:34 pm
Harvey from Woodbridge wrote:The final thing to say is that passive income is NOT the way to make the most money. But then you know that already, right?

I used to sell membership subscriptions, but it took up too much time (dealing with pesky customers and creating a constant stream of new content for them).

After that, I took the "easier" option of selling everything I'd written in ebooks. Sales were disappointingly low, though. And I still had to help 1 or 2 people a day who'd purchased the ebooks but couldn't sideload them onto their reading devices (despite detailed instructions :? ).

That's when I decided to publish everything online for free (an extra 200,000 words of material), monetize through AdSense & get on with the thing I REALLY love (writing fiction :D ).

So although passive income is definitely NOT the way to go to get rich, it IS the way to go if you have something more valuable to do with all the time you save.

Harvey,

You have confirmed what I've come to believe.

I've been busy writing a nonfiction instructional book, wondering how to best publish it once it's completed. I've promoted PDF Ebooks on my recipe site formerly, but I only managed to sell a few hundred in ten years, nothing to write home about. My first inclination was to publish my new book as a Kindle book on Amazon, but thanks to KindleSPY, I discovered that indie authors with significant ebook sales are the exception and not the rule. And those who do experience initial book sales tend to see them dwindle as the weeks pass, and newly published books come forward.

My desire is to have my words seen by the most readers and now that I'm retired, income is no longer a priority. So, since I know how to build a website, I purchased another SBI subscription back in January, and I shall publish everything online for free and monetize through AdSense to cover costs, with a LONG page for each chapter.

Your example has given me encouragement!

Many thanks,
#1396164 by Richard from Spain
Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:01 pm
Thanks Eelkat for your awesome posts.

I love the reference to Maya Angleou's quote: "people will never forget how you made them FEEL .. ."

I used that to motivate my staff in my office - now I try to use it on my SBI site. Emotion is king. (or queen).

And your note that you devote 80 hours a week to your business. There's no substitute for hard work.

Richard
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